tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post230541210295139544..comments2023-06-13T10:03:01.228-05:00Comments on Blue Christian on a Red Background: Why I am voting for Barack ObamaJon Trotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08667858230128323729noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-49954066204534591812008-10-13T16:58:00.000-05:002008-10-13T16:58:00.000-05:00I've since this post covered much more on the abor...I've since this post covered much more on the abortion front; check my links bar for the newest (lengthy) stuff. Thank you.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-28385163357221865652008-10-13T16:53:00.000-05:002008-10-13T16:53:00.000-05:00[Quoting from the Christian Matthew 25 Network at ...[Quoting from the Christian Matthew 25 Network at http://www.matthew25.org/paf/index.htm]<BR/><BR/><BR/>Sen. Obama does not support Partial Birth Abortion. He has stated this repeatedly over his long legislative career. Senator Obama told Relevant Magazine,<BR/><BR/> “I have repeatedly said that I think it’s entirely appropriate for states to restrict or even prohibit late-term abortions as long as there is a strict, well-defined exception for the health of the mother. Now, I don’t think that “mental distress” qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term.” [3]<BR/><BR/>Some will cite Senator Obama’s ‘present’ votes on Illinois Senate Bills SB203, SB 1093, SB 1094, SB 1095 as evidence of support for partial-birth abortion. [4] However, Sen. Obama did not believe the legislation would pass constitutional muster. He has supported legislation which bans partial birth abortion as long is there is an exception for the health of the mother." [5]Aoedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10168363291842342663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-88968926775399415982008-09-15T12:12:00.000-05:002008-09-15T12:12:00.000-05:00Argh. Said "Carl" instead of "Karl" again re Karl ...Argh. Said "Carl" instead of "Karl" again re Karl Rove. Sorry.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-89262366217661716692008-09-15T12:08:00.000-05:002008-09-15T12:08:00.000-05:00American Citizen- It sounds like, however, you are...American Citizen- It sounds like, however, you are okay with tax funded dollars going to killing people on death row, murdering civilians and soldiers in war, killing animals in the environment and thereby encouraging our ultimate destruction, and supporting an increase in poverty here in your own country and around the world, leading to increased starvation and death from lack of access to medical care and insurance.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you can come up with good arguments for justifying all of those positions that McCain would support. But you have that choice to make those decisions. You choose those options, and support a candidate who supports those options. As for me, I'm not Pro-Choice. I'm Pro-Life, and in a Seamless Tapestry.Jed Carosaarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10775889983099808362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-92137197634997511792008-09-15T12:06:00.000-05:002008-09-15T12:06:00.000-05:00AmericanCitizenusa wrote:"A Christian cannot vote ...AmericanCitizenusa wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>"A Christian cannot vote for Barack Obama."</I><BR/><BR/>Actually, a Christian can vote for whomever she or he pleases. In fact, most of us try pretty hard to vote as we think we should vote when informed by Scripture, discernment, and a whole way of seeing which is not unduly affected by preconceptions which are rooted more in culture than truth. Note, I say this even as I hold a very strong opinion who the "right" person is this election. Unlike many on the Right and a few on the Left, I refuse to proclaim God as having rubber-stamped any candidate as "his" or "not his."<BR/><BR/>Re abortion, partial-birth or otherwise, I have probably written more pro-life articles than you've read. Further, I participated in Operation Rescue (before Randall Terry and others destroyed the movement by aligning it with Dubya's dad's campaign). The Church failed to use non-violence as a weapon to battle abortion, and instead want to put more and more right-wing justices on the Supreme Court. All we've managed to do in that regard is create a court more open to reactionary interpretations of law. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court since 1980 (when the Repubs took over and -- except for the Clinton era -- kept the White House, has not made any significant change to Roe v. Wade.<BR/><BR/>Further, if Roe were "flipped," what we'd have then is a state by state ruling on abortion. Likely outcome, not radically different than what we have now, except for a few states whom would outlaw it.<BR/><BR/>Further yet, the term "Pro-life" is one which only has staying power if as a culture we make as extravagant an effort on behalf of born children and their single mothers as we're making for the unborn children. Republicans are astonishingly obtuse on this point, as are many Evangelicals. "Don't use my tax money to help that mother financially!" Oh, but do make sure she has the baby, despite having no support structure around her to even care for herself, much less raise the child? Hypocrisy.<BR/><BR/>Finally, until Evangelicals take on the burden of Life overall -- and that includes the killing of mothers and wives, children (born and unborn), as well as husbands and fathers in Iraq and around the world -- their words ring hollow when whining about abortion.<BR/><BR/>I am pro-life, and will always be pro-life. But I refuse to be held captive by mis-definitions which hold "pro-life" to be merely the protection of the unborn. Community -- loving one's neighbor -- is in the Christian sense something that has no boundaries. I am responsible for my neighbor, <I>whomever that neighbor may be.</I> And while I will not say "a Christian cannot vote for Candidate X", I will say that to fail to think through some of these issues very, very carefully before repeating as biblical the boilerplate of Carl Rove / John McBush is singularly non-discerning. And I think that I, too, have the Spirit of God.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-20001577342987724302008-09-14T11:53:00.000-05:002008-09-14T11:53:00.000-05:00A Christian cannot vote for Barack Obama. He supp...A Christian cannot vote for Barack Obama. He supports tax payer funded abortion. In partial birth abortion, a baby is pulled out of the birth canal until its neck is exposed and then a scapel is shoved into its neck until its brain stem is severed. I don't want my tax dollars going for abortion. This issue alone is enough reason to know the morals of the man.AmericanCitizenUSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05414297414684199829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-59964018584139179662008-03-13T17:37:00.000-05:002008-03-13T17:37:00.000-05:00I myself feel we are lacking in a choice of decent...I myself feel we are lacking in a choice of decent canidates. I def do not want Mc Cain at all (who also believes in abortion and stem cell research)<BR/>At least Obama is real to earth on medical care needs. I like many are uninsured and can;'t afford health insurance. Obama I feel would bring this to light. So I am 90% sure im voting for obama, I cant imagine voting for hillary or mc cain...... He is so liberal he might as well be a democratAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-46244904663299008332008-03-05T23:47:00.000-06:002008-03-05T23:47:00.000-06:00Jon, I'm so sorry! I know from personal experienc...Jon, I'm so sorry! I know from personal experience that words online like that can really hurt, despite their completely obvious lack of truth. One would wish that an attacker would have the courage to name themselves, or at the very least be able to come up with clever word play rather than stooping to rather troglodyte insults. But truly, I know you know the best thing to do is simply pray for Joy for all the Anons out there.Jed Carosaarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10775889983099808362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-55406489327046197752008-03-05T17:58:00.000-06:002008-03-05T17:58:00.000-06:00Trott - You are the most consistent ass on the pla...Trott -<BR/> <BR/>You are the most consistent ass on the planet.<BR/><BR/>I think it's your bisexual leanings that are attracting you to Borat Osama.<BR/><BR/>Your poor, stupid wife. She must be so disappointed that she fell for a fool like you.<BR/><BR/>Wishing you nothing but the worst.<BR/><BR/>AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-91025496901536794512008-03-04T09:22:00.000-06:002008-03-04T09:22:00.000-06:00i appreciate you sharing your thoughts.i'm glad yo...i appreciate you sharing your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>i'm glad you even are able to find hope in any of the possible candidates.RChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11340006144797496514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-1539661811616064072008-03-04T01:25:00.000-06:002008-03-04T01:25:00.000-06:00Good stuff Jon.How do we get around the abortion i...Good stuff Jon.<BR/><BR/>How do we get around the abortion issue in light "the least of these?"<BR/><BR/>I tend not to be a single issue voter, commonly voting for 3rd party candidates, but the abortion issue is no doubt a huge issue for the church.<BR/><BR/>Personally I had hoped it would have been Gulianni running against Clinton for the presidency. Then the church would have been totally flustered and deadlocked on who they could vote for. I can just hear Jimmy Dobson now.<BR/><BR/>It could still turn out in my favor this way. McCain is no good guy as far as the church is concerned and maybe he will pick Gulianni to be his running mate. It would be a fun year to watch the church short circuit!ottOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15925069569111999866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-65924579959665589852008-03-03T21:50:00.000-06:002008-03-03T21:50:00.000-06:00She repeated that quasi-denial three times? Now, ...She repeated that quasi-denial three times? Now, where have I heard a similar story?...<BR/><BR/>For all these conservative Christians spreading the rumors of Obama as a Muslim or an ex-Muslim, I ask them, "Which would you prefer? A man who has grown up in the Church, or one who converted from Islam?" I mean, seriously, isn't that like, <I>the</I> exciting story- the conversion from another religion- for evangelicals? And though Obama wasn't Muslim, he did do the adult conversion deal, from more atheism. Conservative Christians are totally missing an opportunity to hype that up- this is Good News. Or so I was raised to believe. Stupid Jesus Freaks screwing my values up...Jed Carosaarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10775889983099808362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-27065838013020888532008-03-03T16:55:00.000-06:002008-03-03T16:55:00.000-06:00Hehehe... how unevangelical of me! I suppose I mea...Hehehe... how unevangelical of me! I suppose I mean in his adult life. He has belonged to one church here in Chicago for the past 20 years. Today this issue popped up again, thanks in part to some VERY ambiguous sounding comments by Hillary Clinton. That despite the facts -- clearly explored by various news agencies -- that neither his past nor his present has involved any adherence to Islam. Period. Further, he has been involved with Christian faith. I am annoyed not at you, of course... rather, I'm venting my frustration at Clinton's thrice-repeated comments that "Barack Obama's not a Muslim... as far as I know." <BR/><BR/>The Clintons are King and Queen of word-parsing. Absolutely, and there never will be others like them...<BR/><BR/>Sheesh.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-23155057372431930532008-03-03T16:33:00.000-06:002008-03-03T16:33:00.000-06:00Thanks Jon. Great thoughts, as always. Si se pue...Thanks Jon. Great thoughts, as always. Si se puede!<BR/><BR/>One correction I'd add too, which I think you'll appreciate the importance of- Obama's not a life-long Christian. Rather, he's a professed Christian who actually made a decision to follow Christ as an adult- when he was younger, he certainly wasn't Muslim, but he also denies that he was Christian. As with most evangelicals, he sees following Christ as not something you're born into, but rather as someone you make a conscious commitment to.Jed Carosaarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10775889983099808362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-86932250204294388462008-03-03T14:43:00.000-06:002008-03-03T14:43:00.000-06:00I am not sure I agree. Nor am I sure I disagree. H...I am not sure I agree. Nor am I sure I disagree. However, I do respect the candor...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-42414450133336728262008-03-03T14:34:00.000-06:002008-03-03T14:34:00.000-06:00ACK! Thanks. Fixed.ACK! Thanks. Fixed.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-32612802045404133542008-03-03T13:49:00.000-06:002008-03-03T13:49:00.000-06:00Great post...Just a note - it should be Karl Rove,...Great post...<BR/><BR/>Just a note - it should be Karl Rove, not Carl Rove.davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03644042937287618954noreply@blogger.com