tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post7909288429134423873..comments2023-06-13T10:03:01.228-05:00Comments on Blue Christian on a Red Background: Getting Personal: Why this Pro-lifer is voting for Barack Obama, Part 2Jon Trotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08667858230128323729noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-33629679336329257072009-02-27T17:10:00.000-06:002009-02-27T17:10:00.000-06:00Hi Jon, Thanks for your reasoned voice on this mat...Hi Jon, <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your reasoned voice on this matter. As someone whose politics fall primarily on the left, I’m often dismayed by the large-scale association of an anti-abortion position with the radical religious right. (Elliot Klein’s “Did I Leave the Left or Did the Left Leave Me?” accurately depicts my feelings. http://womendeservebetter.com/history/leftleft.htm) <BR/><BR/>You're right: "voting pro-life" doesn't yield magical results. McCain would like have done a lot of harm to a lot of people and I’m very grateful that he did not become the American president. <BR/><BR/>But neither could I have in good conscience lent my vote to Barak Obama, and as a Canadian I encouraged my American boyfriend to scratch his ballot or to vote for an independent candidate as an alternative to backing either option.<BR/><BR/>Loss of human life is loss of human life, whether it be through war or abortion. Barak Obama has pledged to introduce the Freedom of Choice Act, which will increase access to abortions currently being curtailed or prevented under current state standards. Catholic hospitals may be required to perform abortions, and deterrents like parental notification and wait-periods will be nullified – as will conscience clauses which protect pro-life doctors from actions they find morally repulsive. <BR/><BR/>I’m all for increasing programs that will reduce the desperate circumstances that lead to abortion and you’re entirely right that pro-lifers need to be more involved in concrete solutions not merely in talk. But Obama’s FOCA is not a solution, because women and their children deserve better than abortion. <BR/><BR/>The following article lends humorous perspective on the matter and I think you’ll see its relevance to our discussion: http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/2008/10/stephen-douglas.php<BR/><BR/><BR/>Thanks for being a thinker. <BR/>Kristine KruszelnickiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-43902057873009897062009-02-27T16:38:00.000-06:002009-02-27T16:38:00.000-06:00Hi Jon, Thank you for offering a reasoned approach...Hi Jon, <BR/><BR/>Thank you for offering a reasoned approach to this problem. As someone whose politics fall largely on the left, I am frequently bothered by the association of an anti-abortion stance with the radical and religious right (the article by Elliot Klein, a pro-life feminist accurately expresses my sentiments http://womendeservebetter.com/history/leftleft.htm) <BR/><BR/>McCain would've done dreadful damage to a lot of people, and I'm very glad he is not the American president... <BR/><BR/>But neither would I have in good conscience been able to vote for Obama. As a Canadian dating an American I recommende that my boyfriend scratch his ballot or vote for an independant party as an alternative.<BR/><BR/>Loss of human life is still loss of human life and I could never have voted for a man who has pledged to introduce the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) which will result in abortions that to date have been prevented and discouraged. FOCA could force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions and will nullify all current state restrictions on abortions (including parental consent,waiting periods, and conscience clauses for pro-life doctors).<BR/><BR/>I'm all for an increase in programs to curtail the problems that lead to abortion, and pro-lifers NEED to become more pro-active in providing concrete help. But Obama's FOCA is not a good solution - because women and their children deserve better than abortion. <BR/><BR/>The following piece of writing amused me, and I think you'll be able to see the relevance to this discussion:<BR/>http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/archives/2008/10/stephen-douglas.php <BR/><BR/>Thanks again for being a thinker on these matters.<BR/><BR/>Kristine KruszelnickiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-20142293139883954002008-10-23T02:44:00.000-05:002008-10-23T02:44:00.000-05:00Thanks so much, Jon. While I agree on the feminism...Thanks so much, Jon. While I agree on the feminism issues, I don't go as far as CBE or you.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless I share your concern for the Kingdom and fully agree with your other helpful, well-expressed thoughts here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-60273129324065612332008-10-22T18:26:00.000-05:002008-10-22T18:26:00.000-05:00Sally, sorry. Here's that CBE link again, and this...Sally, sorry. Here's that CBE link again, and this time it should work:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cbeinternational.org/" REL="nofollow">http://www.cbeinternational.org/ </A>Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-69929137851663249102008-10-22T18:23:00.000-05:002008-10-22T18:23:00.000-05:00Sally, You've hit on one of my most oft-mentioned ...Sally, <BR/><BR/>You've hit on one of my most oft-mentioned themes. Paul is abused by both skeptics and dogmatists, often over his (alleged) stance on women. He's postulated as a "defender" of masculine "headship" in both home and church by the patriarchalists. The atheists/agnostics/skeptics pick up not the Word itself but rather the interpretations of that Word by self-proclaimed male "leaders" of the church, using that patriarchal straw man to attack Paul himself.<BR/><BR/>I have a high view of Scripture and Paul, and a low view of hierarchalist/patriarchalist interpreters who would ram their fallacious and bigoted interpretations down our throats. I reject them. I hope you've encountered <A HREF="http://cbeinternational.org" REL="nofollow">Christians for Biblical Equality</A>, a wonderful bunch of Evangelical women and men dedicated to exploring the radical egalitarian/mutuality message of Scripture. Blessings to you. Oh, and if you want more of my feminist rantings than you can find here, see my old site, <A HREF="http://aremenreallyhuman.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Are Men Really Human </A>.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-36446964788664681862008-10-22T15:57:00.000-05:002008-10-22T15:57:00.000-05:00Mr. Trott, It is so heart warming to find a Chris...Mr. Trott, It is so heart warming to find a Christian who shares much of the same battle I have faced in dealing with my strong Evangelical background. I blindly listened to the political stance that as a Christian I could not be a Democrat, most importantly in regards to being Pro-life. Recently, while expanding my education, I did a political science class which made me start to question these things.... I am now a strong Obama supporter. <BR/> Would like to receive more of your posts to help keep me focused on the importance of the strength of Jesus in my life and still be able to question the blind religious rhetoric that has plagued me my whole life. <BR/> I was so impressed with your statement about Apostle Paul...as a young girl and growing to be a wife and mother, mature individual, I always resented Paul and felt that in some way he did not care for women much. Never did marry. Jesus Himself had close relationships with many women (not suggesting sexually here!) and I believe this reflected His deep and unconditional love for we as women just as for men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-21825386955340539282008-10-21T23:30:00.000-05:002008-10-21T23:30:00.000-05:00yes. i think you are on to something!yes. i think you are on to something!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-31677897493502067902008-10-21T22:34:00.000-05:002008-10-21T22:34:00.000-05:00Ya know, I usually think conspiracy theorists are ...Ya know, I usually think conspiracy theorists are a bit loopy, but I have my own theory and the more I think about it the more I think I am on to something. This seems as good a place as any to throw it out and see if anyone swings at it. I have always wondered why the Repubs and Pro-Life types (I am prolife but not Repub) propose bills that can't possibly pass. They are always extreme, don't include an exception for rape, incest or even the life of the mother. It seems like they almost don't want the bill to pass, just something they can use to say, He voted against this, babykiller! Then it occurred to me, the day Roe v Wade is overturned will be a very dark day for the Republican Party. There are a whole lot of people who only vote Republican because of abortion. If Roe v Wade is gone, they will be free to think-and vote!-for themselves. Roe v Wade is the Republican hook, and I suspect The Powers That BE in the GOP really don't want it to be overturned.<BR/>So, whatcha think? Have we got a conspiracy?maureen.deyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106557239612731732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-48194877566860630302008-10-21T17:34:00.000-05:002008-10-21T17:34:00.000-05:00I wish I had the insight to write this!I wish I had the insight to write this!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-36683199003034551262008-10-14T12:50:00.000-05:002008-10-14T12:50:00.000-05:00Thanks to all of you. I've since noticed some grea...Thanks to all of you. I've since noticed some great blogging elsewhere on pro-life Obamans... just have to get around to blogging on it or at least linking to it.Jon Trotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05269111052515857956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-27499331755580136132008-10-08T09:58:00.000-05:002008-10-08T09:58:00.000-05:00Thanks for such well formed thoughts (not that I w...Thanks for such well formed thoughts (not that I would expect otherwise). Frank Schaeffer recently posted a message along these lines and these certainly echo my own thoughts on the issue.Alisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03447952644086630435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-45817137338040816232008-10-06T18:13:00.000-05:002008-10-06T18:13:00.000-05:00I liked that- We are salt, not sugar.I liked that- We are salt, not sugar.Jed Carosaarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10775889983099808362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11057324.post-85140896504639089312008-10-06T17:44:00.000-05:002008-10-06T17:44:00.000-05:00Hey - thanks for thinking out loud, and sharing. I...Hey - thanks for thinking out loud, and sharing. I appreciate it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com