Monday, March 20, 2006


As D. H. Lawrence once said that pornography does dirt to sex, I would say that predestination does dirt to God.


Mundane Egg said...

Ouch! That is to the point...but is an issue that I have dealt with for years.

Having grown up Pentecostal I was around those that were far too Arminian. Salvation was something that could be lost at the drop of a hat. I turned to Calvinism/Augustianism as a refuge - to have a little bit of security. The problem came, especially with minstry efforts, with the concept of predestination. To think that GOd "marked out before hand" who would be saved and who wouldn't just didn't seem to congeal with the the God that I had encountered in scripture and in my own life.

There is comfort to think that God chose some to go to Heaven but then again He also chose some to go to Hell and there isn't a damn thing that you can do about it. - No comfort in that - no way.

I began to take the swing back to a a more Calvinist/Arminist position.

Flush the "P" down the drain. I do not think that it is consistent theologically nor logically.

Jon Trott said...

Yep, me too. I think most protestant believers in America today are "mutts" theologically, and there's something to be said for that. The pure breeds, well ya gotta watch 'em. Most of 'em seem a little rabid to me.

Anonymous said...

The "P" in TULIP actually refers to 'Perseverance of the Saints', not Predestination. I think the doctrine of predestination is probably in the realm of TULIP's "U" (Unconditional Election).

steve said...

Actually, I wanted to weigh in, as a dyed in the wool born, bred and baptised on the 8th day Calvinist ( who actually spent about 6 year convinced I was not one of the elect: having tried everything, knowing I did not know God, what else could I conclude?) and say that the "L" : "Limited Atonement" might more correctly be the letter referring to predestination

I remember seeing a comic in the 60's, in the form of the CHICK publications (that were way arminian) This comic tried to give the Calvinist side of theology, drawn by a very gifted, but very sad man named Vic Lockman. Although I had no reason to doubt calvinism at the time, I remeber thinking the visualisation of TULIP was really silly.

I ended up proving God's limitless grace...was it perserverance of the Saints? I don't know. All I know is that I know Him, and more importantly, He knows me, and has accepted me into an eternal relationship...if I stand.